Day trip for the Monday Night Boys! Up at 5:30am to get to Phil's for a prompt 6:30am start...or not. Chris of the broken clock was our driver, and arrived just before 7am. Still, nice clear roads and good weather (apart from very thick fog in the Peak District) saw us on site for 9:15am.
As regular readers will know we've been prepping for this tournament for a while. The aim of "Steppe Up" was to test out the new rule changes for Light Horse. Steppe armies with a minimum of two LH were the army selection criteria. We weren't expecting everyone to go with the classic mounted armies, but it was clear that the army choices for many players had been based on what killed light horse, so there were lots of Hungarians with War Wagons, several Graeco-Bactrian and even a couple of Western Sudanese, packed with archers. Complying with the rules but not the spirit. Couple of suggestions if the organiser is going to do this again: put in a requirement for four LH, not two, or define "Steppe" as those so classified on page 136 of the DBA3 rule book.
As previously advertised I took my Mongols (IV/35) and after last Tuesday's games I finally opted to take the artillery piece in lieu of one LH element.
The draw was seeded, with rankings based on previous performances. Mine are few and far between, so I was expecting to be facing a tough challenge. After the first round pairings were done Swiss Chess style.
First game was against Tom with Parthians (II/37). He had a 4Kn General, 2 x 4Kn, 2 x Ps, 1 x 4Ax, 4 x LH and 2 x 3Bw. I knew to be wary of the bows after my most recent games. This was the sort of army I was expecting to face, and I was attacking. I had a plan, which involved breaking up the line with the artillery to make Tom waste PIPs and then fight away from the rough ground with the Psiloi in it. With both of us hiding elements a bit (my artillery has to stay out of trouble) it was 10:11 element game.
It mostly went to plan, although my artillery, facing off against his Bows (i.e. 4 v 2 in shooting) only inflicted one recoil. I got a "closed door overlap" on the right and the match ups I wanted.
Well, I lost the overlap combat and was recoiled, then failed to make a dent anywhere else. I'd engineered a 3:2 match up in the middle of the line with my LH double ranked. I won that, which then gave me overlaps either side, to hopefully give me recoils and a kill or two (especially against the LH, where I would be 3 or 2 against 1. Well, I won one or two to get recoils and there were a couple of draws. Then Tom threw in everything willy-nilly, which suited me as I was mostly at evens or had overlaps but I collapsed with a run of 1s in all combats, losing 0:4 in about four turns.
I was not amused.
As you can see, we were amongst the first to finish this round.
Next game was against Mark, who I have known since University days, but I haven't played him since then, probably. Anyway, Mark is a very good player, and had been unlucky in his first game so this was going to be a tough game. He's using Later Hungarians (IV/43c) with War Wagons (2 x WWg, 1 x 3KnG, 2 x 3Kn, 2 x Sp, 1 x Bd, 1 x Ps, 3 x LH). Luckily for me I brought the artillery. Also, lucky for me I have the higher aggression by +2, so I'll be attacking and will be able to line up as I want.
Or not. I'm defending. No worries I can shift the kit round in turn one. Only I roll 1 PIP. I rolled low PIPs for the first few turns. Mark shifted the right hand WWg out wide, and sealed the table edge with his light horse. He wasn't rolling a lot of PIPs either.
I managed to get an attack in one the right with my massed light horse against his, but even with an advantage, being double depth, I couldn't even engineer a recoil. The artillery couldn't hit anything, and it was all very sluggish. Mark wouldn't come forwards - well, he needed two PIPs to move the WWg groups - and I was looking at unfavourable match ups if my artillery can't hit the target, and I also needed 2 PIPs to move it.
As we went into the last 10 minutes it was clear we were heading for a draw, and I'd killed nothing. The quirk of the scoring is you get 0 points for a draw, and 1 for a loss, to encourage players to get on with it. As I'd only got 1 point from the last game I needed to get stuck in. I was better off losing. I attacked all along the line and went down 0:4. Again. I can't really blame the luck. I had no plan for dealing with the WWg if the artillery didn't come off, and my marginal plays failed. On the other hand, in the last turn when I attacked Mark turned most of his +1 or +2 advantages into kills.
Still not amused.
Game Three: The Mongol Civil Wars begin. Tim also has a IV/35 army, although he's gone for the 6 LH, 5 Cv and 1 Art option. I lose the dice off and am defending. I can guess from the side of the terrain board he chose what he's planning, more or less, and deploy accordingly. This picture isn't of set up, but after my first move.
Well, I had a plan and things went well. I got a kill with my artillery early doors, then tempted him out of position so I could get overlaps and advantages. I was shortly 3:0 up, and the last combat of the bound I'd got a "closed door" attack on a light horse element with another overlap, so I was at +3 and only needed a simple outscoring to finish the game off.
Well I didn't. I got bounced, which made a few elements vulnerable. Tim got enough PIPs to make contacts everywhere he could. I rolled a succession of 1s and 2s in combat and lost 3:4.
Unbelievable. I nearly went outside and kicked the waste bin.
Lunch break. It was drizzly and miserable outside.
I'm propping up the table now, along with Phil. Maybe a place above him. I now get to play competition organiser Paul, who is making up the numbers because of a drop out. He's using Khazars (III/16). He has 1 x 3KnG, 1 x 3Kn, 4 x Cav, 2 x 7Hd, 2 x LH, 1 x Ps and 1 x Art.
Solid Horde. I hate them. They count in the competition as a point for a kill, but not towards winning the game.
I was attacking.
Paul played very cagily and in the end I had to take the bait and attack him on a hill at a disadvantage (can't afford a draw if I don't want to finish bottom). I'd done the best to even things up on the flank before hand but he outplayed and out thought me all the way through, so I lost 2:4.
Can't complain. Beaten by a better player who knew what he was doing.
My stated ambition of "not coming last and winning a game or two" is looking unlikely.
Game Five was against Colin, who had Mongols but without artillery. I was attacking, and Colin produced two of the biggest and ugliest hill terrain pieces I've ever seen or played on. I have no photo of this game.
I set up a trap, and he walked right into it. In a trice I was 3:0 up, and I had two closed door overlaps just to finish him off.
I got recoiled on both, and then he attacked again and in a flurry of 1s and 2s I lost 3:4.
Oh no. Not again.
Final game and I'm defending against Jonathan in his first tournament, using Skythians (I/43b). He has 8 x LH, 2 x Ps, 1 x 3KnG and 1 x 3Kn. It may be his first tournament, but John is an experienced player.
In the opening move he sends two LH round my right flank to get into a position to attack my camp, which I have placed carelessly. In his next turn he attacks it and destroys it. B*gg*r. I counter by sending my General to sort them out. The gully stops him being overlapped, and he kills one of the intruders quickly.
The artillery delivers with some line disruption and I'm able to get to grips with his LH using my Cv. He's forced to bring out the Psiloi to protect his flanks and I think I killed one of those too. Romp home (!) with a 4:2 victory.
Bottom half of the final table shows me not last, and I got a win, so I guess I met my personal victory conditions. If things had gone with the odds in my two 3:4 games I'd have picked up another 10 points, and a kill or two in the first two games would have put me comfortably in the top quarter. As it was in the world that doesn't include "What ifs" Chris had bragging rights in the car on the way home.
The tournament winners were using Later Hungarians and Graeco-Bactrians, which I found a bit sad. Still, if I'd been smart enough to think of it, maybe I would have taken them, based on my Hussites.
Nah. I was always going to use the Mongols.
Lessons learned? Have the rule changes made LH better? The 0 PIP move in turn one means you can hide them in Bad/Rough going and then burst out, regardless of what you roll. As Jonathan demonstrated it is much easier to get round an open flank now. Honestly, however, I reckon the main difference was using Steppe terrain, which gives LH the space to move.
Where does that leave DBA (F) then? Well it is sort of in limbo. The authors are continuing to refine the rules, but they don't have the go ahead to publish. WRG can't publish a DBA update without Phil B's say-so and apparently he doesn't think one is necessary (I don't disagree, but I don't play as much as the guys working on the update). So don't hold you breath.
The drive back was dark and wet, but without holdups. Home for 7:30pm, with plenty of time to watch England v Wales on catch up. Only the game wasn't on ITVX, so we had to watch it with Welsh commentary on S4C. I see it is there this morning. What's all that about then?
[Chris k's perceptive report on the day's fun and games can be found
here.]
I admire your stamina in driving all the way to Castleton and back in January and playing six games on the way! As for players who rock up to a Steppe Army tournament with minmaxed non Steppe armies - well, it reminds me why I am very selective with whom I choose to play with.
ReplyDeleteWell it was February. We had avery good drive up and back. To be clear, all the armies fielded had the hold terrain type of Steppe in the DBA 3 army lists, and even those who optimised their choices were good to play against.
DeleteWell, you met the expectations you laid out for yourself going into this contest. Seems like a successful outing.
ReplyDeleteIt was a good day out in pleasant company. If I'd won my first game - which I was close to doing so despite losing 4:0 - I might still have only won one overall as my opponents would have got tougher.
DeleteGreat report, Graham 👍🏼. It was a tough day, and the rule changes seeing LH flee rather than be destroyed when doubled by shooting made them very hard to pin down, as my Uighur archers found out (I resorted to charging LH with Bw whenever possible 😯)...
ReplyDeleteBut well run, and good to get six games in against a variety of folks not in the ‘usual opponents’ category, (but a fair ol’ trek…).
Thanks. You obviously ended up in the top half of the table. I think you played Chris in about game two. Phil had said before we went "always take 2 bows" and i think they paid dividends. even if you can't kill them, a shooting them off and making them flee really messes up your PIP count if you want to bring them back. I mostly didn't have problems with them, as I often held them off with the catapult. I suffered at the hands of Mark J's War Wagons. You have probably missed this year's chance to play me.
DeletePhil’s advice was good…I went for Uighur which had three x 3Bw, and they were worth their weight in gold, although they also lost a few shoot outs with other bows at the dreaded low numbers end of the combat spectrum, where the dice take over, big time. I chose them because they would be ‘a bit different’ (as against my first thought which was the Parthians which I expected to see a few of).
DeleteI may see you at other Northern events, if you decide to go for them (eg the Levelling Up in Sheffield, end of March?). That’s a fun one….
And no, I didn’t grace the top half of the table, but ended in 20th (2 wins, 1 draw v Chris K. and 3 losses). ‘One of those days’ 🙃.
I don't know what the final listing of armies was. There were at least three Mongol Conquest armies and most of those were firmly anchored in the lower half of the table. If the experience is repeated then I'd probably go with my Ilkhanids, which have even more LH because I've got them in the box, or Alans (ditto). I'm not doing Levelling Up. I'll see what else comes up. Possibly Coventry, if it happens. Weekends can be busy even though I'm retired.
DeleteCoventry is due on 21st Feb. Pete D’s running it as a ‘doubles’ featuring allied paired forces from ‘Armies and Enemies of II/56 Early Imperial Romans’ lists. If one cannot attend as a pair, there is the option to go ‘solo’ and be paired up, though nb it needs to be ‘booked’ in advance….so if you fancy it, it’ll be definitely different’ from the usual tournament.
DeleteCan't make that date. Sounds interesting.
DeleteAfter all these years DBA is still ... erm ... evolving. One of the problems I had with the DB* systems: fine in concept, and ought to have made pre-Renaissance armies wargamingly very accessable, yet somehow fell prey to the rules tinkerer and rules lawyers. Pity. Oh, and gamers who like to game the system - such as steppe armies that weren't really steppe armies. One feels that it wasn't just the dice that worked agin you there.
ReplyDeleteSince I was mainly playing 'away' games (despite switching from Nikephorian [Ag4] to Constantinian [Ag1] Byzantine), I adopted a policy of letting the enemy set up what terrain he liked, then beat him in it. Worked a deal more often than not - except for my Bulgars (record: W2, D2, L14+). In the end I quit playing: win, lose or draw, I simply wasn't enjoying the games.
Came this close -><- to selling off my Byzantines and friends, but never actually had the heart. Every time I hoiked them out to have a look, I simply said, 'nah. Can't sell these fellas, eh?' So I've created my own rule sets and campaigns for them instead. Much more fun! And I finished all the figures I have, too.
I still think DBA, and the DB* argot, is - at least potentially - a great game system, though. But after 30-odd years, one feels that the 'potentially' qualifier ought not to be entering one's view.
Cheers,
Ion
I think that DBA 3 is pretty much perfect for what it does and is one of the great game systems. It's a stylized rule system to play in a small area with limited figures in under an hour. I don't think it needs changing or updating. In any generic simple set of rules there will inevitably be compromises in the design. The only way out of this is to add more complexity and extra rules and then it ceases to be DBA. I must be clear that ALL the armies used had their home terrain as "Steppe" in the Army Lists. I would query the army list classification for some of these, but that's not the fault of the players. The laugh our loud "you must be kidding" armies were the Western Sudanese. Reading the notes and looking at the list it reads like someone's hobby horse. There are 313 main lists in the rule book, most of which have at least two options if not more. so there's at least 700 if not a 1000 options in there. It's a remarkable achievement and you have to accept that the quality might be variable outside those we all know (having said that I'd rip up the Wars of the Roses lists and start again. Back when I was an SoA member and regular slingshot contributor I took issue with some of the new lists being touted for DBx. There is no evidence for most of the African armies. There's virtually no archaeology and practically no written record and yet the lists had a bit of this and a bit of that to make the armies effective.
DeleteI'll keep playing DBA and I'll do one or two tournaments a year, but it is never going to take over my life in such a way as i'll ever been really good at it.